Re: pgadmin4 - Use classic style interface, don't launch browser?

Wow.. I go on vacation for a few days and I find this heated thread
going full speed ahead!

Interesting history on why the removal of the 'native interface' occurred.

I do a lot of web work and routinely wind up with locked up or crashed
browsers, so having pgadmin4 run in a browser tab is less than ideal..
although sometimes I run firefox/chrome as another user to have some
memory/process separation so that not ALL of my browsers die when
chrome/firefox barfs up a big one. I suppose I could maintain yet
another user and make sure I start up pgadmin4 as that.

Would there be a possibility of embedding chromium? Since of course
it's actively developed and everyone including their pet cat are using
it as a rendering engine these days (including microsoft) Not sure of
the compatibility with the BSD license would go...

On 7/28/19 2:54 PM, richard coleman wrote:
> Avin,
>
> Let me start by saying;
> grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes.png
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:43 AM Avin Kavish <avinkavish(at)gmail(dot)com
> <mailto:avinkavish(at)gmail(dot)com>> wrote:
>
> They weren't aimed directly at anyone in particular. They were
> suggestions for go-getters who like to take control of their own
> fate and instead of waiting for the randomness of the universe to
> deliver unto them what they seek. Maybe I should have put a warning
> saying "not for the faint hearted, requires effort and reading docs
> to accomplish"
> Your missive appeared directed at the fella who was complaining
> about the problems that pgAdmin4 relying on a browser was causing
> him, especially in regards to password management.  I apologize if I
> misunderstood.
>
> so he would need to install nodejs, npm, nativefier, either open a
> command line/terminal every time he wants to start pgAdmin4 or write
> a batch/shell script to start it.  He would also have to remember to
> start the pgAdmin /server/ separately and forget about using the
> "New pgAdmin window" function.  To add insult to injury, he'd have
> to have separate scripts/commands if he should want a tray icon or
> to run it full screen.
>
> ^ With the way you word things, even standing up sounds hard. It's
> all perspective, it's accomplishable with a bit of effort. While it
> may not be possible to get nativefier to behave as described above,
> because it's an automated tool, you can script electron to do all of
> the above for you.
> That depends on the person, for some people /putting in half a dozen
> stitches /is accomplishable with a bit of effort (heck I've done it
> myself, painful but surely doable).  I would still recommend someone
> who's sliced themselves open go to the emergency room, or at least
> see a doctor.  But I guess it's all a matter of /perspective/ 😉.
>
>
> To add insult to injury,
>
> ^ There are no insults nor injuries mate, surely nothing physical.
> It leads me to believe that you are referring to emotional injury.
> Which then leads me to conclude that you are too emotional about
> this whole business of administering a database thing. Or maybe you
> are a fan of hyperbole, I don't know. Tone is up to interpretation
> in written communication.
>
> Actually that's called /a figure of speech /[ *no end users were harmed
> in the writing of the previous email*].
>
>
> quite often actually.  I have /lots/ of work to do that doesn't
> involve a web browser.
>
> ^ Sure, do that work and also keep the web browser open? How does a
> web browser window interrupt your work? How is it any different from
> having a dedicated window open? Do you run out of RAM or something?
> Do you accidentally start browsing memes when you have a browser
> open? What's the problem? Be explicit about what's wrong with the
> browser.
>
>    In my case, I don't need it, and yes I *do* run out of RAM or
> something (Can I have just a /little more RAM sir? )😋./
>
>
> pulling the tab out wouldn't do *anything* toward solving his
> problem, which revolved around password management
>
> ^ It wasn't meant to solve the password problem but needing a
> standalone window problem, which is also mentioned in the write up.
> In fact, this email wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It is a
> general write up with a few suggestions for all the standalone
> window needs I've seen over the past few days. I haven't directly
> addressed anyone. I'm not sure you who you are referring to by
> "his". I'm just a developer sharing my knowledge in hopes that
> someone would benefit from it.
>
>   I don't know, but I am pretty sure /most/ people these days (with the
> possible exception of my over 70 father) know how to either pull off a
> tab, or start another instance of their web browser.  '/His/' was the
> person who wrote the initial email complaining about pgAdmin4 running in
> a browser and making a mess of his password management.
>
>
> Personally I have my own issues with the decision to write pgAdmin4
> as a /web app/ running in it's own self contained web server.
> However I don't think that there is much of a desire among the
> /official/ dev team to change this
>
> ^ pgAdmin4 cannot be changed from a client-server architecture to
> anything else. It is too late. A re-write would be required, which
> is a breaking change. The only possibility is to affect the design
> decisions of pgAdmin5 or 6. If anyone makes a factual and formal
> presentation of why the existing client-server architecture should
> be replaced with something else rather than improving it, we could
> have a serious discussion. But I doubt it, I think everything can be
> improved within the current architecture.
> Yes, as a developer I realize the work it would take at this stage
> to create an actual client program as opposed to the embedded web
> server that it is now.  Which is why I wrote that I don't see much
> of a desire among the official dev team to change things.   If you,
> or any member of the dev team wants to have a serious discussion
> about the merits and limitations of the current architecture with a
> goal of possibly changing things, I'm all for it.  Unfortunately it
> appears that the design and road map have already been determined by
> the current dev team.  With the exception of reported bugs, or
> unforeseen issues, they don't appear to be open to any substantial
> changes.
>
> One thing I don't see in these emails is any credible facts and
> arguments against browsers, just a statement of personal unhappiness
> at the change of status quo. Maybe, if arguments based on facts that
> affect user experience, security or performance were provided, the
> team would do something about them, as they have been doing since
> the start. Instead, I see complaints. I don't see constructive
> feedback on possible improvements on this topic. I don't see
> solutions. I don't even see real problems.
> Hmmm.. where to begin.
>
> * not all browsers are supported (as evidenced by a bug report where I
> was told that Chromium isn't a /supported/ browser)
> * you have to run the UI as a separate program from the program itself
> * you have to worry about collisions between a /particular/ browser's
> short cuts and another's (Chrome is different from FireFox is
> different from Edge, etc.)
> * context (or right-click) menus aren't typical of a desktop program
> (no copy / paste option in the query window for example)
> * you are limited to a single /window /(tab)
> * you don't have true pop-ups/dialog boxes/notifications
> * if you detach a query editor panel, you can't reattach it (though
> that's hopefully just an unresolved bug)
> * your /session/ is now open to attacks from malicious plugins or
> random people across the internet (it's a /browser/ after all)
> * your user / password management is effected by your particular
> browser's cache or policy
> * you're limited to the sand boxed security restrictions of the
> particular browser you happen to be using (try loading a 10 GB file)
> * disruptions of the connection between the application and the UI,
> timeout's etc. occur (long running pgAdmin4 sessions can cause the
> UI to freeze under kubuntu).
>
>      Not an exhaustive listing by any stretch, just what I could come
> up with off the top of my head.
>
> so, your final suggestion is that, /if/ he's a javascript developer
> he could simply /write his own program/ to fix a perceived pgAdmin4
> shortcoming.
>
> ^ yeah absolutely, write your own programs without asking other
> people to do it for you for free of charge !!!!????? It's open
> source software. No one owes you anything. This is distributed
> without liability
> <https://electronjs.org/docs/api/browser-window>. The existence of
> postgresql and pgadmin itself are mere courtesies.
>
>
>    😂 No one said that they were *owed* anything.  No one is claiming
> anyone is /liable/ for anything either.  Saying that if you don't like
> it you should just write your own is rather short sighted.  Unless the
> dev team is writing pgAdmin4 *only* for *themselves* then they should
> care about what the end users care about.  Otherwise they may find that
> they are the only ones using it. 🤔
>
>
> I did not mean write an entirely new admin app, I meant embed
> pgAdmin4 in Electron which literally takes 5 lines of code as a
> start <https://electronjs.org/docs/api/browser-window>.  1. Create a
> browser window. 2. Point it to pgAdmin4 URL. 3. Enjoy !!. If you
> know SQL, this is definitely do-able. And no it's not like the
> normal browser window. It will look like a normal app. Or you could
> increase the immersion by creating a frameless window but you may
> not be able to close it normally.
> https://electronjs.org/docs/api/frameless-window
>
> Here's a starting point. Follow this getting started
> <https://electronjs.org/docs/tutorial/first-app>first and replace
> the code in main.js
>
> |const { app, BrowserWindow } = require('electron') let win function
> createWindow () { win = new BrowserWindow({ width: 800, height: 600,
> webPreferences: { nodeIntegration: true } }) win.loadURL('|http://127.0.0.1:45707/browser/') // <--- Fix the port number and point this address to it.
>
> |win.on('closed', () => { win = null }) } app.on('ready',
> createWindow) app.on('window-all-closed', () => { if
> (process.platform !== 'darwin') { app.quit() } }) app.on('activate',
> () => { if (win === null) { createWindow() } })|
>
> That's all there is to it. Once you have that working, you can take
> it a step further by getting electron to launch the pgadmin4 server
> if it is not running already by using spawn
> <https://nodejs.org/api/child_process.html#child_process_child_process_execsync_command_options>
>
> It's nice that you included the above, but it's not terribly helpful
> to the /non/-programmer.  I could write the Lorentz transformation
> equations to handle relative velocities in special relativity
>
> image.png
>
> but unless you're familiar with differential calculus and special
> relativity it's not very helpful.
>
> *Maybe an alternate launch option based on Electron should be an
> officially supported feature ?*
>
> Maybe.  Though I think it would have to handle the above mentioned
> limitations, and be /built in/ for it to help *most* people.
>
> So there, no attacks, insults, or other /negativity. / Just one man's
> opinion.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 1:07 AM richard coleman
> <rcoleman(dot)ascentgl(at)gmail(dot)com <mailto:rcoleman(dot)ascentgl(at)gmail(dot)com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Avin,
>
> My $0.02
>
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 2:11 PM Avin Kavish
> <avinkavish(at)gmail(dot)com <mailto:avinkavish(at)gmail(dot)com>> wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> Here's some unofficial input on the topic.
>
> This request baffles me for two reasons.
>
> a. Why does one need a standalone window when they can have
> pgAdmin open in a tab while multi-tasking. Is there ever a
> time when the web browser is closed while using a pc in
> 2019? If you lose tabs you can pin the tab and it will
> always be on the left side.
>
> quite often actually.  I have /lots/ of work to do that doesn't
> involve a web browser.
>
> b. If you want it to run in it's own window, you can drag
> and pull the tab to it's own standalone window.
>
> pulling the tab out wouldn't do *anything* toward solving his
> problem, which revolved around password management
>
> If that doesn't solve your problem,
>
> You can try Nativefier but you might need to launch pgAdmin
> on the same port each time. It basically wraps any web site
> in an electron app. Electron fyi allows developing desktop
> apps using web technologies. It's based on chromium and
> nodejs and renders web apps just like google chrome would.
> https://github.com/jiahaog/nativefier
>
>  so he would need to install nodejs, npm, nativefier, either
> open a command line/terminal every time he wants to start
> pgAdmin4 or write a batch/shell script to start it.  He would
> also have to remember to start the pgAdmin /server/ separately
> and forget about using the "New pgAdmin window" function.  To
> add insult to injury, he'd have to have
> separate scripts/commands if he should want a tray icon or to
> run it full screen.
>
>
> Or if you are a javascript developer you can write an
> electron app yourself to encapsulate and extend upon the
> current functionality. https://electronjs.org/
>
> so, your final suggestion is that, /if/ he's a javascript
> developer he could simply /write his own program/ to fix a
> perceived pgAdmin4 shortcoming.
>
> Personally, I find it convenient to have it as a tab while
> reading docs and other stuff and often prefer it to
> switching to my IDE.
>
> I'm glad that you find the current set up convenient,
> unfortunately it seems like this is a problem for at least Mark
> and tutiluren.
>
> Once again, this is unofficial. I'm not part of the team.
>
> neither am I.
>
> Personally I have my own issues with the decision to write
> pgAdmin4 as a /web app/ running in it's own self contained web
> server.  However I don't think that there is much of a desire
> among the /official/ dev team to change this.
>
> rik.
>
> Regards,
> Avin
>
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 10:51 PM Murtuza Zabuawala
> <murtuza(dot)zabuawala(at)enterprisedb(dot)com
> <mailto:murtuza(dot)zabuawala(at)enterprisedb(dot)com>> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am afraid this is not possible at a moment,  pgAdmin4
> doesn't have its own UI  rendering engine so it is
> dependent on the default web browser on the user's system.
>
> -- Murtuza
>
> On Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 21:32 Mark Murawski,
> <markm-lists(at)intellasoft(dot)net
> <mailto:markm-lists(at)intellasoft(dot)net>> wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> How can I go back to the traditional pgadmin4
> interface where it runs in
> its own window.  I do not want to launch it as a
> browser tab.
>
>