Re: date with month and year

On 05/21/2015 10:45 AM, Paul Jungwirth wrote:
>> You really shouldn't use WITHOUT TIME ZONE.
>
> I'd like to know more about this. Can you say why?

Start by reading about the date and time data types with special
attention to section 8.5.3:
www.postgresql.org/docs/current/static/datatype-datetime.html

Now go back and read it again and experiment a while until it makes
sense. As Adrian Klaver so eloquently put it, "If I have learned
anything about dealing with dates and times, is that it is a set of
exceptions bound together by a few rules. Every time you think you have
the little rascals cornered, one gets away." This is also a very good
reason to avoid reinventing the wheel.

When you need a break, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY

His conclusion is a good one: be very happy that someone else has done
the dirty work for you.

The Ruby article does make one good point which is that we are talking
about what they call an "instant" or what I like to refer to as a "point
in time." The "point in time" is actually a better way of thinking of
"timestamp with time zone" since the "timestamp with time zone" does not
actually store any timezone information - it stores a point in time that
can be manipulated in the time-zone of your choosing whereas timestamp
without time zone is not a point in time and must be combined with other
information to do proper manipulation.

The article does also display a couple attitudes that I feel are
especially rampant in the web-development community. The first is that
web developers shouldn't become educated about the capabilities of a
database but rather use the database as a dumb data-store and redo
everything themselves (often this includes an utter failure to use the
data-integrity capabilities of the database).

The second is the assumption that they are the only users of the
database and that nobody will ever access the data except through their
custom-written Ruby/PHP/Perl/Python code and that no other programming
language will ever be used. Woe be to the poor slob who has to deal with
ad-hoc queries, analytics platforms or reporting systems that weren't so
brilliantly reinvented or who wants to use range-types or other nice
PostgreSQL features.

Internally PostgreSQL stores timestamp without time zone in UTC but that
is entirely irrelevant. What is relevant is that you can provide an
"instant"/"point in time" in whatever time-zone representation you want
and get it back the same way. Want to use a Unix epoch in your code. Go
ahead:
extract(epoch from yourtstzcol)
abstime(yourepochint)

Want to assume everything is UTC? No problem:
Konsole output
set timezone to 'UTC';

Then you can reinvent wheels to your heart's content without wrecking
the ability to easily use other tools.

By the way, use full timezone names to avoid ambiguity. I don't know
what Ruby cooked up but PostgreSQL uses industry-standard names:
Konsole output
select * from pg_timezone_names;

Your original question had to do with month/year. You will have to
define this for your use-case but beware that it won't necessarily get
you away from time-zone issues as the month ticks over on a zone-by-zone
basis.

Also note that time-intervals can be a source of interesting
side-effects. Operator precedence is important. For example, what is one
month? 28-days? 29? 30? 31? Every system must make a judgment call. Add
a month to January 31 and you will get February 28. But add/subtract a
month from February 28 and you get January 28/March 28. So you can
create a query that takes a date, adds a month and subtracts a month and
results in a different date. There is nothing to do here but to read the
docs and try things.

There are similar issues when crossing DST boundaries. If I want to push
something out a day in my time-zone on the day that DST changes I can do
it easily and understand that PostgreSQL will handle the extra/missing
hour. Or I can use an explicit increment of '24 hours' if that is what I
want. No extra steps of converting the timestamp without time zone to
UTC, converting that to the desired local zone, doing the calculations,
converting back to UTC and back to timezone without timestamp all the
while potentially adding an easy error such as doing things in the wrong
order and checking for DST changeover in the wrong time-zone.

Cheers,
Steve