Keith,
Oh, there it is, in tiny print.
Dave
On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 15:03, Keith C. Perry wrote:
> Quoting Dave Cramer <pg(at)fastcrypt(dot)com>:
>
> > Jeff,
> >
> > I agree; we have an apparent lack of awareness of many things. IMO this
> > is more indicative of a lack of a unified presence than anything else.
> > part of the project is on gborg, part of the project is on advocacy,
> > .... etc.
> >
> > How would a newbie know to go look for advocacy.postgresql.org ?.
> >
> > Dave
> > On Mon, 2003-12-29 at 10:18, Jeff Eckermann wrote:
> > > This has been an interesting thread, with lots of well
> > > considered contributions. The consensus seems to be
> > > "PostgreSQL is plenty good enough and more, we just
> > > need more people to know it, and an easier learning
> > > path".
> > >
> > > What bothers me a little here is an apparent lack of
> > > awareness of the work of the Advocacy Group. They
> > > have been organized for a little over one full release
> > > cycle, but have already begun to achieve some
> > > impressive things. The release of version 7.4 saw a
> > > well prepared press release, which was subsequently
> > > picked up by journalists and featured (often lifted
> > > word for word) in articles in a variety of IT industry
> > > publications around the world. The effect was to get
> > > our marketing material in front of the eyes of many
> > > readers, without them having to go looking for it at
> > > all. When did that happen before?
> > >
> > > I cite that as just one example of what can be
> > > achieved by an organized and co-ordinated approach,
> > > which is just what the Advocacy Group is working on.
> > > The scope for more development along these lines is
> > > huge, all that is needed is the passage of time, and
> > > hopefully more contributions from more people. I
> > > recommend to all those whose interest was caught by
> > > this thread to check out the pgsql-advocacy list, if
> > > you have not already done so, and think about what you
> > > might be able to add. In answer to the obvious
> > > question, I have been lurking on that list for a
> > > while, and intend to make a contribution where I feel
> > > fitted to do so.
> > >
> > > Maybe we need to invent some new solutions, but for
> > > advocacy at least, we already have one.
> > >
> > > --- Ericson Smith <eric(at)did-it(dot)com> wrote:
> > > > A documentation system like the one over at
> > > > http://php.net, would be
> > > > fantastic for Postgresql. There could be lookups
> > > > based on SQL commands,
> > > > Functions, and Sitewide Searches. This alone would
> > > > go a long way to
> > > > expose PHP to "the masses".
> > > >
> > > > In terms of using MySQL or Postgresql, lets all face
> > > > it, most data
> > > > storage work could be easily and efficiently handled
> > > > by text files,
> > > > since there needs to be just infrequent inserts and
> > > > updates, and mostly
> > > > reads. The majority of interfaces exposed on the web
> > > > follow this
> > > > paradigm, and include:
> > > > * Content management
> > > > * Catalogs
> > > > * Shopping cart stuff
> > > > * User management
> > > >
> > > > Yes, our powerful and easy to use PG can do all of
> > > > that too, but SQLite,
> > > > Sleepycat DBM files and MySQL can do it as well.
> > > > There are going to be
> > > > even more migrations for Oracle to MySQL than from
> > > > Oracle to PG, because
> > > > so many of those Oracle installations were overkill
> > > > in the first place.
> > > > Our place is in that hoary back end that runs the
> > > > world, the un-sexy
> > > > part of any organization that no one outside of the
> > > > Development team, or
> > > > System Administrators know about.
> > > >
> > > > Getting mindshare is a different problem. That
> > > > requires PG to have a
> > > > full time effective press person. This press person
> > > > would need to be in
> > > > touch with the press constantly to tell them things
> > > > like:
> > > > * PG is a great back for windows clients using
> > > > ODBC/MS Access/Excel
> > > > * PG is a "real" database comparable to Oracle
> > > > * PG costs nothing
> > > > * Free support is fabulous, and paid support is
> > > > available
> > > > * Development is constant
> > > >
> > > > In the end, I believe that PG needs to move into an
> > > > organizational
> > > > structure so that its considerable assets can be
> > > > fully realized, its
> > > > wonderful developers may be fully compensated, and
> > > > commercial users (our
> > > > bread and butter), can have an official place to
> > > > help sponsor features
> > > > of the system and so on. All this is more than a
> > > > website. Someone posted
> > > > pictures of the PG booth at a show recently. It was
> > > > nice, but there was
> > > > this one sad guy shrouded in darkness -- I felt
> > > > depressed, because
> > > > that's how PG advocacy felt.
> > > >
> > > > Warm regards,
> > > > Ericson Smith
> > > > DBA/Developer
> > > >
> > > +-----------------------+----------------------------+
> > > > | http://www.did-it.com | "When I'm paid, I always
> > > > |
> > > > | eric(at)did-it(dot)com | follow the job through.
> > > > |
> > > > | 516-255-0500 | You know that." -Angel
> > > > Eyes|
> > > >
> > > +-----------------------+----------------------------+
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Karsten Hilbert wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >>I'm in a similar situation. My app is currently
> > > > PG-only (although I
> > > > >>_might_ be able to get it work with Firebird
> > > > eventually). Currently I have
> > > > >>to sell Linux to prospective clients in addition
> > > > to my app. A native
> > > > >>Windows version would make my life a bit easier.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >Same here.
> > > > >
> > > > >Our "clients" use legacy medical office software
> > > > that 99% runs
> > > > >on Windows. We offer add-ons (tailored
> > > > mini-versions of our
> > > > >main application :-) and thus get OSS (Python,
> > > > PostgreSQL,
> > > > >wxWindows, sometimes Linux itself) into their
> > > > offices and onto
> > > > >their networks. Most of the time the main
> > > > difficulty is to figure
> > > > >out how to offer PostgreSQL in their environment
> > > > (yes, we know
> > > > >about CygWin).
> > > > >
> > > > >("clients" because we don't do business as in
> > > > selling stuff)
> > > > >
> > > > >Karsten Hilbert, MD
> > > > >
> > > > >www.gnumed.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > begin:vcard
> > > > fn:Ericson Smith
> > > > n:Smith;Ericson
> > > > org:Did-it.com;Programming
> > > > adr:#304;;55 Maple Avenue;Rockville
> > > > Center;NY;11570;USA
> > > > email;internet:eric(at)did-it(dot)com
> > > > title:Web Developer
> > > > tel;work:516-255-0500
> > > > tel;cell:646-483-3420
> > > > note:Nothing special!
> > > > x-mozilla-html:FALSE
> > > > url:http://www.did-it.com
> > > > version:2.1
> > > > end:vcard
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > ---------------------------(end of
> > > > broadcast)---------------------------
> > > > TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
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> > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
> > > http://photos.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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> > >
> > --
> > Dave Cramer
> > 519 939 0336
> > ICQ # 1467551
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives?
> >
> > http://archives.postgresql.org
> >
>
> Dave,
>
> I'm not trying to be curt with you or anything but a serious questions, did you
> not see the links on the right side of http://www.postgresql.org under where it
> says websites?
--
Dave Cramer
519 939 0336
ICQ # 1467551