Re: Democracy and organisation : let's make a

Tom,

> project remain viable? So, no matter how silly you might think
> "MySQL is better" is today, you've got to consider the prospect that
> it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

We also don't have a couple of other things that MySQL has: A
viciously divided community, a bobby-trapped licensing situation, and a
flagrant disredard for the SQL standard and cumulative wisdom of 25
years of database knowledge. (Nested tables! Sheesh!) These things
handicap the MySQL project quite effectively, and are not likely to be
straightened out in the next year.

BTW, PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE the above. It's ok for the hacker's list,
but I do not want to fuel the MySQL/Postgres "debate" anywhere more
public. This "debate" does not benefit either project.

Also, I am concerned about the focus on MySQL as our "only competitor".
Frankly, I have never regarded MySQL as our primary competitor; that
spot is reserved for Microsoft SQL Server. Especially with the death
of SQL Anywhere, Postgres and MS SQL are the two major databases in the
transaction/vertical application space for the budget-minded business
(although MS SQL is considerably less budget-minded than it was a year
ago).

When we've crushed MS SQL, then it's time to take on Oracle and DB2.

I think there's plenty of room in the RDBMS market for both MySQL and
PostgreSQL. If there's a marketing need, it's to educate DBA's on the
different strengths of the two databases. You think MySQL would
cooperate in this, or do they see themselves as competing head-on with
us?

> In short: we could use an organized marketing effort. I really
> feel the lack of Great Bridge these days; there isn't anyone with
> comparable willingness to expend marketing talent and dollars on
> promoting Postgres as such. Not sure what to do about it. We've
> sort of dismissed Jean-Michel's comments (and those of others in
> the past) with "sure, step right up and do the marketing" responses.
> But the truth of the matter is that a few amateurs with no budget
> won't make much of an impression. We really need some professionals
> with actual dollars to spend, and I don't know where to find 'em.

I disagree pretty strongly, Tom. OpenOffice.org Marketing has no
cash, and is an all-volunteer effort. To quote journalist Amy Wohl
"[OpenOffice.org] have managed to put together a better buunch of
volunteer marketers than Sun is able to hire." Frankly, of the various
marketing techniques, only going to trade shows costs money; the rest
is all labor which can be done by volunteers and donors.

Of course, this requires somebody pretty inspired to organize it. I
already have my hands full with OpenOffice.org. Volunteers?

As Great Bridge should have taught you, corporate money for mmarketing
comes with expectations and deadlines attached. Landmark gave you one
shot at "making it", and then yanked the carpet when that didn't pan
out immediately. Other companies are going to be the same. One of
the greatest things about Postgres is that we have been able to outlast
the death of half a dozen companies that supported us, and replace them
with new.

And isn't Red Hat doing anything to promote us?

Finally, thanks to you guys, we are still advancing our project faster
than most commercial software. How many RDBMSs out there have DOMAIN
support? How many have advanced data types that really work? How
many support 5 procedural languages and subselects just abotu
everywhere?

-Josh Berkus