Re: Unclear problem reports

On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 07:21:19PM -0700, David G. Johnston wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 5:35 PM Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> wrote:
>
> I consider these as problems that need digging to find the cause, and
> users are usually unable to do sufficient digging, and we don't have
> time to give them instructions, so they never get a reply.
>
> Is there something we can do to improve this situation?  Should we just
> tell them they need to hire a Postgres expert?  I assume these are users
> who do not already have access to such experts.
>
>
>
> Have pg_lister queue up a check for, say, two or three days after the bug
> reporting form is filled out.  If the report hasn't been responded to by
> someone other than the OP send out a reply that basically says:
>
> We're sorry your message hasn't yet attracted a response.  If your report falls
> into the category of "tech support for a malfunctioning server", and this
> includes error messages that are difficult or impossible to replicate in a
> development environment (maybe give some examples), you may wish to consider
> eliciting paid professional help.  Please see this page on our website for a
> directory of companies that provide such services.  The PostgreSQL Core Project
> itself refrains from making recommendations since many, if not all, of these
> companies contribute back to the project in order to keep it both free and open
> source.

Yes, that is an idea. I have canned email responses for common issues
like PGAdmin questions on the bugs list, but for these cases, I don't
know if someone might actually know the answer, and I don't know how
long to wait for an answer. Should we be going the other way and state
on the bugs submission page, https://www.postgresql.org/account/submitbug/:

If you are having a serious problem with the software and do not
receive a reply, consider additional support channels, including
professional support (https://www.postgresql.org/support/)

I have been hesitant to recommend professional support myself since I
work for a professional support company, but in these cases it is
clearly something the user should consider.

> I would also consider adding a form that directs messages to pg_admin instead
> of pg_bugs.  On that form we could put the above message upfront - basically
> saying that here is a place to ask for help but the core project (this website)
> doesn't directly provide such services: so if you don't receive a reply, or
> your needs are immediate, consider enlisting a paid support from our directory.

Yes, like I stated above. Not sure how pg_admin fits in here because we
gets lots of questions that aren't "server not starting".

> The problem with the separate form is that we would need users to self-select
> to report their problem to the support list instead of using a bug reporting
> form.  Neither of the mentioned emails are good examples of bug reports. 

Yes, given the experience of many of the bugs posters, I don't think
self-selecting would help.

> Either we make it easier and hope self-selection works, or just resign
> ourselves to seeing these messages on -bugs and use the first option to at
> least be a bit more responsive.  The risks related to having a rote response,
> namely it not really being applicable to the situation, seem minimal and others
> seeing that response (assuming we'd send it to the list and not just the OP)
> would likely encourage someone to at least give better suggestions for next
> steps should that be necessary.

The problem is that I don't even know how long to wait for someone to
reply, so doing it up front makes more sense.

--
Bruce Momjian <bruce(at)momjian(dot)us> https://momjian.us
EDB https://enterprisedb.com

If only the physical world exists, free will is an illusion.