Re: [WAY OT] Re: PL/java?

> No offense, but I've been developing under your language
> since nearly it's public conception... and perl is _great_.
>
> Frankly, I don't want to argue with you, because you'll
> simply defend your own creation without reasonably
> evaluating the situation.
>
> But I think everyone needs to remember that we shouldn't
> make a decision about this because of everyone's political
> stances behind languages, especially if they haven't had
> development experience with it.

i think that you missed the point that mr. schwartz is trying to
make - anything you can do in java, you _can_ do in perl. in my
opinion, he isn't trying to say that you _should_ do it in perl.
he might do it in perl but, after all, there is more than one
way to get things done :)

one of the things that i find refreshing about perl is its lack
of corporate attitude. perl doesn't have any aspirations to be
anything other than what it is. it isn't being driven by
corporate marketing forcing it to beat someone else. the only
thing that is driving it is the needs and desires of its
developers to evolve it to meet the needs of its users.

and i do almost all of my server-side development in java!

> Alex> How would you go about synchronizing session data on 10
> Alex> application servers running mod_perl _without_ using the
> Alex> database to "mirror" that data in memory? It's not very
> Alex> difficult to do it in Java.

are you saying that it isn't very difficult for you to go out
and write this yourself in java or are you saying that it isn't
difficult for you to use what someone else has already written?

if the former and if you want to do something like this in perl
you can start with reading the section in the camel book on tcp
clients and servers. if you feel that tcp has too high of an
overhead then you can read the section on udp clients and servers.

if the latter, look on cpan and if what you want isn't there then
you can step and contribute.

ohmigod, i'm defending perl and guess what? i _still_ do almost
all of my server-side development in java!

> Alex> However, mod_perl is absolutely slower than most any
> Alex> > j2ee application. If all you are doing is keeping
> Alex> a session variable to count number of hits on a web
> Alex> page, then sure, perl is more than sufficient,
> Alex> possibly faster. But when you start doing anything
> Alex> of importance, enterprise level stuff, you need
> Alex> something scalable in ways java can go, but perl
> Alex> just doesn't seem to have _easy_ or sometimes
> Alex> _existant_ ways to implement.

i don't like language bigots. i just don't. most languages are
quite capable and anyone that denies the viability of one
language is generally uninformed. just because perl doesn't get
the four-color glossy press that java gets doesn't mean that it
isn't capable it just means it doesn't get the four-color glossy
press. just because you don't see something arrive in your box
every day trumpeting perl doesn't mean it can't do what you want
and do it well. it just means that there isn't anyone out there
blowing the horn in your ear.

we have already seen on this topic someone spouting off that
java was way too slow, that c++ was sooo much better, that
having a jvm included in the distribution would make postgres
hog memory and crash unexpectedly. all of this without any
links to nice evidence. all of this while degrading java based
on the performance of one application (tomcat) that pretty much
everyone agrees is a dog.

personally, i see a _lot_ of similarities between his issues with
java and your issues with perl. 7-11 burritos.

rjsjr