Re: Irresponsible actions

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-www-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org
> [mailto:pgsql-www-owner(at)postgresql(dot)org] On Behalf Of Omar Kilani
> Sent: 23 December 2004 11:52
> To: PostgreSQL WWW Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] Irresponsible actions
>
> Dave Page wrote:
>
> > No, the doc section was not broken. The URLs had changed so users of
> > phpPgAdmin (which links directly to them) could no longer find the
> > pages, but the site itself was fine.
>
> Sorry. Incorrect. Anyone who visited the docs section and clicked on
> entries in the manual table of contents pages got a 404.
> For a couple of hours after the site was launched.

Possibly for a brief period whilst the docs with the new extensions were
rsync'ed, but as I was working on the site constantly whilst that
happened, I'm confident that it was not 'hours'.

> But of course, *testing*
> things seems
> to be an afterthought.

We have been testing the framework and mirroring code since the 5th of
Decemeber, however, no amount of testing would have picked up this
problem with phpPgAdmin *until* we went live.

> > I count 4 people saying, yes, go for it, and one saying not yet.
>
> Those 4 people had no idea of what the remaining issues with the site
> were. Incidentally, you called for *any* objection, you did
> not call for
> a vote. There's a difference. Even then, it's two people, and
> those two
> people are responsible for hundreds of hours of work that made the
> launch possible.

Err, not the only two by a long shot. I've put in a *lot* of hours on
the infrastructure/hosting side, and Andreas and Alexey built the
framework which took a lot of effort as well.

> > Frankly, I'm glad I am not a customer of tinysofa if you
> treat them in
> > the same way.
>
> Incorrect again. tinysofa is not a commercial entity--we don't have
> customers. You had already been told this previously.

No, I haven't.

> We saw it fitting to give back to the community (please, note this,
> *community* -- users, developers and vendors, not the "web team", not
> you) under that name since we love PostgreSQL and use it
> extensively in
> everything that we do.

Which is great - but you have to work *with* the web team.

> You may not appreciate it, but we put hundreds of hours into the site
> that you put up against our wishes (we knew you would,
> anyway.) The fact
> that the *community* thinks the new site is as important to
> PostgreSQL
> as the release of 8.0 is a testament that those hundreds of hours and
> the battles that we fought every step of the way paid off.

I do appreciate it, and I am grateful for it. However, you must also
appreciate that there are other factors driving these things, and the
bottom line is, we got to a stage where any remaining work on the new
site became largely irrelevant because it was already vastly superior to
the old (because of the efforts of you, Emily, Alexey and Andreas).
Because that was the case, and there was a desire to go live prior to
8.0 being released, that is what we did.

I do not regret that decision, and I think you will be hard pushed to
find anyone who has been in this group for more than a few weeks would
either. The emails praising the site that I've forwarded, and comments
on /. imply that the users think it's a vast improvement as well.

Regards, Dave