RE: BUG #15035: scram-sha-256 blocks all logins

Seriously, though, it took all three of you a whole day to find out something from the depth of your documentation, and when I point out that the documentation is not user-friendly - which this ordeal obviously proved - you complain about it?? You complain about something true because an outsider pointed it out??

Our users notify us when (and if) they're about to switch to a different database, or start working with a new database. You don't know if I'm in a position to consult with them whether or not to use PostgreSQL, you don't know how many users we have who could hear from me to never, ever use PostgreSQL.

Grow up, quickly.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tomas Vondra [mailto:tomas(dot)vondra(at)2ndquadrant(dot)com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 17:50
To: Meirav Rath <meirav(dot)rath(at)imperva(dot)com>; David G. Johnston <david(dot)g(dot)johnston(at)gmail(dot)com>
Cc: Daniel Gustafsson <daniel(at)yesql(dot)se>; pgsql-bugs(at)lists(dot)postgresql(dot)org
Subject: Re: BUG #15035: scram-sha-256 blocks all logins

On 01/30/2018 03:37 PM, Meirav Rath wrote:
> Actually, my job is to test our products’ compatibility with 13
> databases, PostgreSQL is one of them. I see a /lot /of documentation
> and so far PostgreSQL has been relatively friendly.
>
> However, this very roundabout way of saying things, so much so that
> you need to ask a PostgreSQL person how to interpret the phrasing is
> not user-friendly. After I’m done with PostgreSQL 10 new features’
> testing, I’m moving on to test other databases’ new versions and their
> features.
>

Great response to people who're helping you with your job for free.

Now consider that you've submitted something that is not a bug but an
issue with configuring pg_hba.conf properly. Generally, a bug report
requires some explanation of why the configuration is correct and what
the behavior should be.

We do see plenty of people posting such non-bug questions to psql-bugs
and we're somewhat annoyed by that. Most people however take the hint
and post the question to pgsql-general when asked to do so, instead of
attacking the people who are actually trying to help them.

I agree getting pg_hba.conf right is not simple, particularly if you do
it for the first time. But I don't see anything wrong with it, and you
don't explain what a better/simpler solution would look like. You'd have
to learn how any other solution works anyway - the principles would be
the same.

But complaining is simpler, I guess ...

What I find particularly strange is your response to David quoting the
documentation. Pointing you to the proper part of the docs is about the
best thing he could have done, the paragraph is technically accurate,
provides additional context about how pg_hba.conf works, and copying it
is much faster than typing the explanation by hand.

This is a mailing list and terse response are expected.

> If I was a DBA whose company considered moving to work with
> PostgreSQL, and I saw this obscure phrasing, and the clumsiness to
> this code, I’d tell my bosses to think twice about PostgreSQL and
> maybe try a sturdier database.
That's up to you. But perhaps your boss will see it differently.

regards

--
Tomas Vondra http://www.2ndQuadrant.com
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services
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