Re: New PostgreSQL T-Shirt

On 6 July 2016 at 12:39, Damien Clochard <damien(at)dalibo(dot)info> wrote:

> Le 06.07.2016 17:09, Simon Riggs a écrit :
>
>> On 5 July 2016 at 18:41, Fábio Telles Rodriguez
>> <fabio(dot)telles(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>
>> We make a new PostgreSQL T-Shirt for the 20 years aniversary. It's
>>> based in a picture i saw on internet from Gabriele Bartolini.
>>>
>>> If any one want to use the art, be my guest:
>>> http://savepoint.blog.br/download/elefante_postgreSQL.pdf
>>>
>>
>> Wow, what a rip off! It isn't just based on Gabriele's work, its a
>> copy as close as possible. A deliberate, detailed fraud, since I
>> already know that Gabriele wanted to keep that design private. You're
>> either violating Gabriele's or AC/DC's copyright, maybe both.
>>
>> Is that what our community has come to? You just rip off somebody
>> else, claim you added some value and then make money for yourself
>> while claiming its been done in the name of our community?
>>
>>
> That's just my two cents but I'm really stunned by the agressivity of your
> message Simon.
>
> This is the internet. You find material and most of the time there's no
> indication of any copyright or license. And inside the PostgreSQL
> community, it's a fair bet to assume that promotional material is available
> under a permissive licence.
>
> I believe that Fabio was just trying to promote PostgreSQL. I think going
> so hard on him for his mistake is a very bad message to the community.
> We're all here to promote Postgres. Marketing is not our primary job and we
> need more indulgence when people make mistakes.
>
> Fun fact : in 2013, I designed a poster called "Keep Calm and use
> Postgres" [1]. Early that year 2ndQuadrant released a keyring using exactly
> the same design [2]. AFAIK nobody from 2ndQuadrant has ever reached me
> about that and I met some employees of the company in person during the
> last weeks... I'm perfectly fine with 2ndQuadrant using my design to
> promote its brand. But my irony sense is tingling when I see you talking
> about copyright violations....
>
> Definitely let's Keep Calm and Use PostgreSQL ;-)
>
>
> [1]
> https://github.com/postgresqlfr/pgfr_materials/blob/master/advocacy/posters/keepcalm/Keep-calm-and-use-postgres.png
> [2] https://twitter.com/2ndquad/status/722697976896991232

Hi Damien,

Sorry to hear that you are upset about the keyring. I confirm that was not
copied from you, nor would we ever do that. The phrase "Keep Calm and ..."
is an old British phrase from wartime and is no longer copyrighted; it is
now in very common use to promote ideas and products and as a joke, so its
a natural and simple thing for a British company to use. I was not aware
that you had issued something similar.

The key differences between the two cases are
1. Awareness - the design wasn't knowingly copied from you - your keyring
was in 2013, the later ones from 2ndQ were produced in 2016
2. Ownership - you don't own that design and acknowledge in the repo that
you sourced the idea from somewhere else
3. Complexity - the design did not take many hours of detailed work to
copy; it was not highly distinctive and original
4. Money - the new keyring was not being sold, it was being given away
freely to promote Postgres

Fabio has apologised and for me that matter is done. Promoting Postgres
does not excuse us from other more basic matters. Yes, mistakes occur -
they can be forgiven, and have been, by me.

Now that you have highlighted the freely available French marketing
materials to me, I will use them to promote Postgres. Thank you, very
useful.

--
Simon Riggs http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
<http://www.2ndquadrant.com/>
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Remote DBA, Training & Services