Re: Q&A at Postgres Women talk at pgconf.eu

Hi all,

As you may not be aware, we had run out of time on that talk, and because
the speakers were over at the side addressing this man's question, they
were unable to see that the time had run out. The talk was 3 minutes
over-time, and the question/answer period had to be cut off. As a group,
we were respectful of everyone asking questions, including this person. In
fact, we let him go on several minutes over time, and because his
"question" went on so long, it prevented another attendee at the talk from
asking her question, despite her having her hand raised for several minutes.

I do not agree that Renee, nor anyone else, was dismissive of the question
or handled it poorly. In fact, Renee and the speakers chatted with the
asker for as long as possible after the talk as well. I felt they did a
good job in the time that was left to address the question, which, in my
opinion, came across as someone just pulling
anti-feminist/anti-inclusion/anti-affirmative action rhetoric from the
1950s. He did not quote any statistics, references, or evidence in his
"question", yet the talk contained qualitative, quantitative, and anecdotal
evidence on the issue.

Congratulations to all the speakers on your composure; I personally felt
you did great and it was a pleasure to host your talk.

Sincerely,
Katie

On Sat, Oct 19, 2019 at 8:43 AM Valeria Kaplan <vk(at)dataegret(dot)com> wrote:

> Agree on that one! I think have some resources on the topic would really
> be helpful. Not only to those who ask questions like that, but also to
> those of us who are aware of the problem but sometimes in discussions with
> colleagues trying to answer questions exactly like that one.
>
> My issue was more about way the interaction was handled and I guess it was
> that question that triggered a quite emotionally charged answer.
>
> Sometimes the emotion is good, it shows that you're passionate about a
> topic but sometimes the focus should be on the question and answer and
> that's where emotion may not be as helpful.
>
>
> On Sat, 19 Oct 2019, 13:28 Stefanie Janine Stölting, <
> mail(at)stefanie-stoelting(dot)de> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> This is just my impression of what happened.
>>
>> I felt exactly the same as Lætitia as it happened. I only got it right
>> afterwards in the discussion with the guy (sorry, forgot the name).
>>
>> If he'd asked that as a question " what can we/I do in case this question
>> turns up..." it would have been a different case, we could than just have
>> told him to discuss this afterwards and we would have pointed to the
>> importance of that question and what could be done/said in such cases.
>>
>> It's fair enough to come up with that question as someone who isn't
>> targeted by this in exactly that talk.
>> Maybe we should put some sources together and point to them when that
>> question will come up again.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Stefanie
>>
>> Am 19. Oktober 2019 09:43:59 MESZ schrieb "Lætitia Avrot" <
>> laetitia(dot)avrot(at)gmail(dot)com>:
>>>
>>> Hi Valeria,
>>>
>>> As I said, impostor syndrom kicks really hard women and as a woman in
>>> tech, I got the "you're not here because you're good but because you're a
>>> woman" assertion so many times in my career that when the guy pointed that
>>> out, my head was like "not that argument again".
>>>
>>> And I know for a fact that several women were given that kind of speech
>>> here at pgconfeu this year. I felt like I didn't want new postgres women to
>>> be confronted with that so soon. That's why I ended firmly the conversation.
>>>
>>> The thing about that is we work hard to give great abstracts to CFPs.
>>> That's a fact and it's not questionable. We have no way to know if our
>>> gender is used in favor or against us during the selection, so on what data
>>> should we rely? Facts or hypothesis?
>>>
>>> Am I selected because my abstract is good, because I'm a woman or
>>> because I'm now well-known in the community? There is no way to answer
>>> that question and I know that question very well because it's always in my
>>> head. I finally decided that it didn't matter. I'm me and people give me
>>> room to speech, so I take it.
>>>
>>> The other thing I'd like to ask is "Do you know a white male speaker who
>>> asks himself if he was selected because he's a white man?". No. They simply
>>> don't put it that way because being a white man is the 'default'.
>>>
>>> Finally, I totally understand your point and our answer might have been
>>> a bit too emotional because based on fear generated by multiple wrong past
>>> experiences. Thank you for having pointed that out and we'll get better.
>>>
>>> Have a nice day,
>>>
>>> Lætitia
>>>
>>> Le ven. 18 oct. 2019 à 17:49, Valeria Kaplan <vk(at)dataegret(dot)com> a
>>> écrit :
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> In light of openness and acceptance within our community I just wanted
>>>> to raise an issue that I've seen happen during a Q&A session at the
>>>> conference and hear your thoughts.
>>>>
>>>> During a Postgres Women Q&A session at pgconf.eu there was a question
>>>> from one of the attendees that I don't think was handled very well. The
>>>> question was from a guy who raised, in my opinion, a very valid point about
>>>> increasing the number of female speakers at events. He wasn't able to
>>>> finish his question as the microphone has been taken from him and as he
>>>> wanted to comment further he wasn't given a microphone back.
>>>>
>>>> This actually made me feel a bit uneasy since I feel if we want
>>>> equality in the community we must treat any questions people have with
>>>> respect and snatching a microphone from them is a lack of basic
>>>> courtesy that one expects regardless to the gender, believe etc.
>>>>
>>>> Postgres Women is a fantastic initiative and I think the key is not to
>>>> act towards the majority in a way that we wouldn't tolerate as their
>>>> behaviour towards minority. This might send a wrong message and actually
>>>> have an opposite effect than what we are trying to achieve in the
>>>> community.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Valeria
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 6:37 PM Lætitia Avrot <laetitia(dot)avrot(at)gmail(dot)com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> As I'm still learning and not so good at organizing things, I didn't
>>>>> think to take people's e-mail to contact them, so I have no other way than
>>>>> sending this invitation here to everyone. We'll get better next time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some quick information here :
>>>>> - the dinner is sponsor, you just need to take care of your drinks
>>>>> - the dinner time is 7:30 PM
>>>>> - the restaurant is Ristorante Tagiura (please, find map enclosed)
>>>>> - before the dinner, we'll find a place to have a drink only with
>>>>> women (we're actively looking for a place)
>>>>>
>>>>> Have a nice day,
>>>>>
>>>>> Lætitia
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Paper doesn’t grow on trees. Please print responsibly.*
>>>>>
>>>>