Re: pgAdmin4 4.8 Kubuntu issues

Dave,

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 12:13 PM Dave Page <dpage(at)pgadmin(dot)org> wrote:

> Richard,
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 4:55 PM richard coleman <
> rcoleman(dot)ascentgl(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> Dave,
>>
>> Actually I thought I was being quite restrained in my assessment. With
>> version 4.8 the developers completely upended the end user experience.
>> From pgAdmin3 through all versions of pgAdmin4 *prior to the current one*,
>> the end user could start pgAdmin and then get to work creating connections,
>> modifying databases, running queries as their postgreSQL permissions
>> allowed. If they wanted to save a password, that was their choice (though
>> it didn't always work). Suddenly with pgAdmin4 4.8 they are *locked out* of
>> the application by a *required* Master Password. To make matters worse,
>> there is *no* simple or even well defined way to disable this change.
>> The *solution* is to dig through the documentation, then *rummage* around
>> on your file system (as the exact location varies by OS or distribution)
>> for a *sample* file (the config file isn't actually documented in the
>> official documentation). *Then* create a brand new file, make sure you
>> include the *magic setting*, restart pgAdmin4 and you will *finally* get
>> back to working the way you did *before* you let pgAdmin4 update itself
>> from 4.7 to 4.8.
>>
>
> I've committed changes to improve the documentation.
>
>
>>
>> The only situation I can envision (and perhaps I'm just not paranoid
>> enough) is if someone breaks into my computer, gets my login credentials,
>> gets the separate login credentials to the VPN I use to connect to the
>> corporate network, and *then* manages to start pgAdmin4 as myself to
>> connect to a postgreSQL database, that I've just happened to have had
>> pgAdmin4 save the password to and commit some sort of mischief with my
>> level of access.
>>
>> So, to summarize an attacker would have had to:
>>
>> 1. hack my machine
>> 2. hack into the corporate network through my VPN credentials (which
>> they would have to hack)
>> 3. run pgAdmin4 *as* me
>> 4. have relied on me having pgAdmin4 *save* my passwords.
>>
>> Nope. Way easier than that. A flaw in a browser plugin or browser, or
> effective social engineering, or a malicious application can leak files on
> your system, and as stored passwords are stored in, well, files.
> All passwords are stored in files of one sort or another. Hopefully those
> files are effectively encrypted (assuming of course that you had even had
> pgAdmin4 save your passwords to begin with).
> Now you may have a VPN, but you also may use the same password for
> different things, or other people might use servers that are less hard to
> reach.
> The same sort of people who use the same password for a number of things
> are just going to use that self same password as their *master password* in
> pgAdmin4.
>
>> The only thing I gain from the new *Master Password* requirement is that
>> *if* I had pgAdmin4 save my passwords, an attacker would have need to
>> know one more password to *unlock* pgAdmin4.
>>
>> Unfortunately if I *don't* have pgAdmin4 save my passwords, I still have
>> to remember a *Master Password*. Why? Without step 4 above, it doesn't
>> actually provide anymore security.
>>
>> To add insult to injury I (like *many* people currently using pgAdmin4)
>> have root access (or Administrator level credentials for those Windows
>> users) to my own machine. Which means it's possible for me to jump through
>> all of the hoops to disable the *Master Password *mechanism. So what
>> did not having a setting in the Preferences UI gain in terms of security?
>> If you wanted to restrict changing that setting to users with the required
>> level of access you could have simply gated it with a sudo/administrator
>> credentials dialog.
>>
>
> How? pgAdmin has no way of doing that over what is essentially a web
> application - and even if it did, allowing a remotely accessible
> application (particularly one in which external programs can be configured
> and executed by users) to modify it's own configuration is a *really* bad
> idea.
> Well for a start Edge uses Microsoft's user credentials as a master
> password. Any number of applications can access files in a *protected
> area *and prompt for a sudo/administrator credential. As for the choice
> to make pgAdmin4 a python version of phpPgAdmin, there's been a lot of
> discussion, most of it not very favorable. I guess you can chalk this up
> to one more reason converting pgAdmin from an application to a *web app* was
> probably not the best idea.
>
>>
>> So basically what we have is a *major* UI change (users are literally
>> locked out of the application) caused by upgrading a minor version level
>> (4.7 to 4.8) with no simple way to revert the behavior all for a dubious
>> increase in security.
>>
>
> I don't wish to be rude, but it's clear you don't fully appreciate the
> possible risks here - and I really don't agree that being asked for a
> password once when the application starts (not an instance of the UI, but
> the server itself, which may support a number of concurrent or intermittent
> sessions) is a major UI change. Not that I'd recommend it, but you could
> have an extremely short password that you type and then press enter. You
> could even ask your browser to save that password if you're less concerned
> about security, and then we're talking about *a single mouse click* at the
> start of your day, or if you're like me, start of your week.
> So you don't deny that 4.8 radically changed it's behavior, without
> warning, from 4.7. You then seek to minimize the impact this has on people
> by undermining the reason for implementing it in the first place. Let's see
> if I am understanding your argument:
>

- You *must *force end users to start using a master password because
they just *don't understand* the security risks of not using one.
- In order to force the issue, you lock most of the functionality behind
the "Master Password" dialog box until they either scour the internet
looking for a way to turn off this *feature* or submit and enter a
master password.
- When someone complains about this heavy handed behavior your *solution* is
to
- use an *extremely short *password
- have* your browser* store your password
- point out that you keep pgAdmin4 running for days or weeks at a
time, so it's *no big deal *

So, the users *must *use a master password, because *security. *If
you find it too burdensome then just use it in a very *insecure* way.

How about;

Don't spring major changes like this on users during a *minor* update
Make it opt-*in* not opt-*out*
Make if very *easy* for users to turn this feature on or off
Protect the absolute *minimum* with this feature, not the entire
application.

Hardly a major inconvenience.
>
> And as for your comment about letting pgAdmin run for days/weeks on
your machine, congratulations. When I leave pgAdmin running for more than
a couple of hours it becomes unresponsive. Not the UI, that works just
fine, but running any queries will take forever (as in they will
literally never finish, just grey out the query tool window). For example
SELECT * FROM <table> LIMIT 1; will never finish, but as soon as I shut
down the server (pgAdmin4 not the database server) and restart it will
complete instantaneously. So I need to restart pgAdmin4 the *server* many
times a day.

I really do hope you'll reconsider this ill-implemented *feature.*

rik.

> Yes, I think I have been quite restrained in my assessment.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> rik.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 10:59 AM Dave Page <dpage(at)pgadmin(dot)org> wrote:
>>
>>> Richard,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 3:22 PM richard coleman <
>>> rcoleman(dot)ascentgl(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>>
>>>> And where would *that* be? pgAdmin4 the executable and the shared
>>>> library is located in /usr/bin/. There are *no* entries in /etc/ for
>>>> pgAdmin4. There is a pgadmin4.db in /home/u/.pgadmin/ but *no* config
>>>> files of any kind there either.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have no idea, I don't use Ubuntu or any of it's derivatives and don't
>>> know where it installs. Have you tried searching for config.py? That is
>>> *not* optional, and must exist.
>>>
>>>
>>>> So it's looking like the only way to actually *use *the current
>>>> version of pgAdmin4 is to create an undocumented file (the help page says
>>>> you can use config.py as a reference, but guess what? That file doesn't
>>>> exist either.) in an unknown location, and manually add the magic string;
>>>>
>>>> "*MASTER_PASSWORD_REQUIRED=False"*
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think that's a little hyperbolic don't you? It works as intended, with
>>> no changes required if you set the password and re-enter it when you
>>> restart pgAdmin. You only need to modify anything if you want to change the
>>> behaviour.
>>>
>>> And to be clear; if config.py is not present on your system, then there
>>> is no way pgAdmin will even start, let alone work.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I get *why* you added this feature, but I think it was implemented *completely
>>>> backwards*. Instead of making *every* end user jump through these
>>>> ridiculous hoops just to *continue* to use pgAdmin4 as they had been
>>>> up to this point, a better option would be to allow security conscious sys
>>>> admins to add the configuration:
>>>>
>>>> "*MASTER_PASSWORD_REQUIRED=True"*
>>>>
>>>> to a non-user writable configuration file. In that way the vast
>>>> majority of people running pgAdmin4 can continue to do so and the few that
>>>> wanted/needed the added security could do so as well.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is not how security works. Without the master password feature,
>>> there are possible attack vectors in which a stored password could be
>>> accessed by third parties. We aim for secure by default; if you don't care
>>> about the risk, then you can actively choose to run in a less secure way.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, now I'm using dBeaver as I *can't* disable the Master Password
>>>> dialog box and pgAdmin4 won't let me *do* anything.
>>>>
>>>> Any other thoughts? Anyone?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> rik.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 10:03 AM Dave Page <dpage(at)pgadmin(dot)org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 2:44 PM richard coleman <
>>>>> rcoleman(dot)ascentgl(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, but after an e*xhaustive* search of the several terabytes on
>>>>>> my machine, there is *no* config_local.py file. Do you have any
>>>>>> idea where it's supposed to be located?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to create it if it doesn't exist, in the same directory as
>>>>> pgAdmin's config.py.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> rik.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 9:30 AM Dave Page <dpage(at)pgadmin(dot)org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 1:16 PM richard coleman <
>>>>>>> rcoleman(dot)ascentgl(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cherio,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am sorry to inform you, but there is *no* mention of "config_local.py"
>>>>>>>> on that page, nor any indication of where I would find it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.pgadmin.org/docs/pgadmin4/4.x/desktop_deployment.html#configuration
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> rik.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 5:06 PM Cherio <cherio(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Put "MASTER_PASSWORD_REQUIRED = False" line into your
>>>>>>>>> "lib/python?.?/site-packages/pgadmin4/config_local.py". This is in the
>>>>>>>>> docs:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.pgadmin.org/docs/pgadmin4/dev/master_password.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 4:41 PM richard coleman <
>>>>>>>>> rcoleman(dot)ascentgl(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To whomever,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Running a newly update pgAdmin 4 version 4.8 on my Kubuntu box.
>>>>>>>>>> There are a couple of glaring issues.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> First: It keeps prompting to; "Set Master Password"
>>>>>>>>>> I don't want to set another password that I'll just end up
>>>>>>>>>> forgetting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Second: When I click the "?" button on that dialog box it takes
>>>>>>>>>> me to this page:
>>>>>>>>>> "http://127.0.0.1:33681/help/help/master_password.html"
>>>>>>>>>> Which returns "404 Not Found"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hopefully there is a simple solution to these issues.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> rik.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Dave Page
>>>>>>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>>>>>>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>>>>>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Dave Page
>>>>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>>>>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>>>>
>>>>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>>>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave Page
>>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>>
>>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Dave Page
> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @pgsnake
>
> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>