Re: pgsql: Remove references to Majordomo

On Sat, Feb 2, 2019 at 9:18 AM Noah Misch <noah(at)leadboat(dot)com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 07:29:39PM +0100, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 7:26 PM Tom Lane <tgl(at)sss(dot)pgh(dot)pa(dot)us> wrote:
> > > Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net> writes:
> > > >> On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 2:28 AM Noah Misch <noah(at)leadboat(dot)com>
> wrote:
> > > >>> What are those blocked infrastructure improvements?
> > >
> > > > The specific improvements we're talking about are DKIM/DMARC/SPF,
> which
> > > > is becoming more and more important to making sure that the email
> from
> > > > our lists can actually get through to the subscribers.
> > >
> > > Certainly those are pretty critical. But can you give us a quick
> > > refresher on why dropping the @postgresql.org list aliases is
> > > necessary for that? I thought we'd already managed to make the
> > > lists compliant with those specs.
> >
> > I believe it doesn't, as Stephen also agreed with upthread.
> >
> > We needed to move our *sending* out of the postgresql.org domain in
> order
> > to be able to treat them differently. But there is nothing preventing us
> > from receiving to e.g. pgsql-bugs(at)postgresql(dot)org and internally forward
> it
> > to @lists.postgresql.org, where we then deliver from.
> >
> > I believe we *can* do the same for all lists, but that part is more a
> > matter of cleaning up our infrastructure, which has a fair amount of
> cruft
> > to deal with those things. We have an easy workaround for a couple of
> lists
> > which owuld take only a fairly small amount of traffic over it, but we'd
> > like to get rid of the cruft to deal with the large batch of them.
>
> Ceasing to accept mail at pgsql-FOO(at)postgresql(dot)org would cause a concrete,
> user-facing loss in that users replying to old messages would get a bounce.
> Also, I find pgsql-FOO(at)lists(dot)postgresql(dot)org uglier, since "lists" adds
> negligible information. (The same is true of "pgsql", alas.) If the cost
> of
> keeping pgsql-FOO(at)postgresql(dot)org is limited to "cruft", I'd prefer to keep
> pgsql-FOO(at)postgresql(dot)org indefinitely.
>

It very specifically *does* convey important information. It may not do so
to you, but posting to an @lists.<something> domain is something that
implies that you understand you are posting to a list, more or less. Thus
it makes a big difference when it comes to things like GDPR, per the
information we have received from people who know a lot more about that
than we do. That part only applies to lists that are being delivered and
archived publicly.

I had forgotten about that part and went back to my notes.

--
Magnus Hagander
Me: https://www.hagander.net/ <http://www.hagander.net/>
Work: https://www.redpill-linpro.com/ <http://www.redpill-linpro.com/>