Re: pgAdmin 3 is still better than pgAdmin 4

Hi

On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 7:31 AM, Vladimir Nicolici <vladnc(at)gmail(dot)com> wrote:

> I've just bought a new computer, and as an exercise I tried to give
> pgAdmin 4 another chance, because my previous attempts frustrated me
> immensely after just a few minutes of use and made me go back to pgAdmin 3.
> My last attempt was on pgAdmin 4 version 1.2, my current attempt was on
> version 1.5. My computer has the latest Windows 10, x64, i7 7700K CPU, 32
> GB RAM, running pgAdmin 4 standalone.
>
>
>
> So, after forcing myself to use pgAdmin 4 for 2 days, things are not
> looking good and I will go back to pgAdmin 3 again. Today pgAdmin 4 is kind
> of usable, for simple stuff. But really, it hurts productivity so much
> compared to pgAdmin 3, and feels so awkward and slow, that I won't keep
> punishing myself by using it. Under these circumstances,
>

That is a known issue with QtWebKit and QtWebEngine on Windows. We're in
the process of implementing a number of changes to improve matters by
further optimising our own code, and have teams at both EDB and Pivotal
working on alternatives to the offending Qt code

> I don't know how you can say stuff like this on your site: "WARNING:
> pgAdmin 3 is no longer supported. It is recommended that you download
> pgAdmin 4 instead."
>

pgAdmin 3 was written and maintained by volunteers. They are free to work
on what they want, and are no longer focussing on pgAdmin 3, as it's issues
are essentially a lost cause.

>
>
> And now the issues I encountered while using pgAdmin 4:
>
>
>
> General:
>
> - On the plus side, the Windows app UI is actually a browser
> control, so the Control + "+" and Control + "-" keyboard shortcuts work to
> bring the UI to a decent size on High DPI displays just like in browsers.
> But it would be nice if the app would respect the Windows scaling settings
> automatically, because at the default scale the UI elements are way too
> small and my 175% scaling setting I configured in Windows for my display is
> ignored. If that's not possible, the browser scaling controls should be
> made available in the settings or a menu, I doubt many people would think
> of using browser keyboard shortcuts to zoom.
>

Those shortcuts are documented. Unfortunately the underlying rendering
engine (which we don't maintain) doesn't honour the system settings. The
replacement might, though performance is the priority there.

> - The app doesn't save empty passwords and keeps asking for them.
>

I use it constantly, and do not see this issue. Can you come up with a test
case? I wonder if there's an encoding issue with your password that I do
not see.

> - The app seems use a lot of CPU even when doing nothing, it
> constantly uses 7% CPU while connected to 4 databases. Most likely caused
> by the dashboard feature.
>

https://www.pgadmin.org/faq/#5

> - There is no way to disable the dashboard feature.
>

That should be possible in 1.6. We have a patch, but we're working out a
bug it introduces.

> - The app feels extremely slow and unresponsive, even with Intel
> i7 7700K CPU running at 4.2 GHz. I mean I just opening the app takes over
> 20 seconds. Without connecting to a database. pgAdmin 3 on my old laptop
> starts in just 3 seconds.
>

pgAdmin 4 is a little slower to start up than pgAdmin 3 due to it's
architecture. However, on Mac/Linux, it's such a small difference that it's
a non-issue. On Windows, the issue is being worked on as described above.

>
>
> Query window:
>
> - Control + S in a query window doesn't save modified files.
>

Please log a feature request for this:
https://redmine.postgresql.org/projects/pgadmin4/issues/new

> - Using Control + "+" to scale the UI to a decent level truncates
> the result header:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/UyLZDIf.png
>

That is fixed as part of a major update to the query tool in 1.6.

> - there is no list of recently used SQL files
>

Please log a feature request for this. It seems like something that could
be included in the new History panel.

> - some of the commented SQL text is not grayed out, it grays it
> out only for the first few lines
>

Can you provide a test case? I'm not sure what you mean.

> - The file picker is still not ideal:
>
> - truncating file names after just a few characters,
>
> - showing HTTP encoding like %20 for spaces in the hover
> tooltips
>
> - mixing directories with the rest of the files in the
> item list.
>
> - you can't change sorting by clicking on columns
>
> - double clicking on a file doesn't open it
>

Please log a feature request for these changes (bugs, for the first two)

> - it doesn't remember the view settings (table view)
> after you close it and open it again.
>

There's already a ticket for that.

> - You can't switch to another server/database in a query window
>

Please log a feature request for this.

> - The copy and download as CSV buttons don't seem to do anything,
> even after you select records in the result table.
>

Those issues have been resolved for 1.6.

> - The is no timer shown during query execution.
>
> - Query tab headers don't show any indication that something is
> executing, so you have to check each tab individually from time to time.
>

Please log a feature request for these.

> - Query tab headers don't show the database name
>

That has been changed for 1.6.

> - no confirmation asked when closing unsaved tabs
>

That has always been there I think - at least since 1.1 or so. It's
certainly there now.

> - no option to copy cell/row/table contents in the query results
> by right clicking on them with a context menu.
>

No, there's no query tool context menu. I'm not sure we want/need one, but
you're welcome to request it for further consideration.

>
>
> Dashboard:
>
> - Doesn't show session SQL, query start, transaction start, last
> state change, blocking sessions
>
> - Can't copy SQL from a session
>
> - Can't copy the session list
>
> - Can't cancel a query/kill a session
>

Those seem like valid feature requests.

>
>
> Browser:
>
> - Using Control + "+" to scale the UI to a decent level results
> in blurred icons in the browser tree:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/EKKYqU8.png
>

There are new hi-dpi icons being designed right now. I just received the
first design, and expect them to be posted to pgadmin-hackers for comments
shortly.

>
>
> To conclude, sure, pgAdmin 3 is not perfect, it has a variety of issues
> too. And while some of the issues from pgAdmin 3 are fixed by pgAdmin 4,
> the regressions far overweigh any advantages at this point.
>

For myself, and many (but certainly not all) users I know of, I disagree.
pgAdmin 4 is *much* more stable than pgAdmin 3 ever was, and as a Mac user
I'm afraid I don't get hit by the performance issue (but fully acknowledge
it's an issue for Windows users). Whilst the issues you raise above are
certainly all valid requests and may be useful to you, they are, for the
most part, not things that affect everyone.

pgAdmin is a complex piece of software, and a major part of the rewrite
project was intended to cut down on features that weren't really used. Some
of those things we got wrong, and are working to rectify issues as users
report them. We did have a number of beta releases of pgAdmin, and
unfortunately some of the changes we made that we didn't realise affected
some users, were not all reported in that time.

Moving forwards we're addressing obvious issues of course (there are
already nearly 80 changes in 1.6 - including a change to the query tool
that makes it orders of magnitude faster than pgAdmin III with large data
sets, and the ability to use un-dockable tabs in desktop mode so you can
use multiple monitors). More subtle issues and complex UI changes are being
addressed in a much more user-focussed manner. One of the huge advantages
of the technology change is that we now have significant backing from at
least two major companies who are investing in pgAdmin - and that is
allowing us to move forward in a much more structured and user-focussed
way, rather than relying on the traditional open source "scratch your own
itch" methods.

Thank you for the feedback.

--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company