Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 06/03/2018 04:08 PM, Gavin Flower wrote:

>> My comments:
>>
>> 1) Reiterate my contention that this is a solution is search of
>> problem. Still it looks like it is going forward, so see below.
>>
>> 2) "... engaging in behavior that may bring the PostgreSQL project
>> into disrepute, ..."
>> This to me is overly broad and pulls in actions that may happen
>> outside the community. Those if they are actually an issue should be
>> handled where they occur not here.

This is good point. There are those who would think that one has
performed an action that brings the project into disrepute and a similar
sized bias that suggests that in fact that isn't the case. This based on
the CoC would be judged by the CoC committee.

It is my hope that PostgreSQL.Org -Core chooses members for that
committee that are exceedingly diverse otherwise it is just an echo
chamber for a single ideology and that will destroy this community.

>>
>> 3) "... members must be sensitive to conduct that may be considered
>> offensive by fellow members and must refrain from engaging in such
>> conduct. "

>> Again overly broad, especially given the hypersensitivity of people
>> these days. I have found that it is enough to disagree with someone to
>> have it called offensive. This section should be removed as proscribed
>> behavior is called out in detail in the paragraphs above it.

"considered offensive by fellow members"

Is definitely too broad. The problem comes in here:

> I might possibly say that "I'm the master in this area" when talking to
> someone on a technical subject.  In the sense that I'm better at that
> particular skill, but some hypersensitive American could get their
> knickers in a twist (notice, that in this context, no gender is implied
> -- also in using that that expression "get their knickers in a twist"
> could offend some snowflake) claiming that I'm suggesting that whoever

"snowflake", I find that term hilarious others find it highly offensive.
Which is correct?

> I'm talking to is my slave!  I heard of an American university that
> doesn't want people to use the term master, like in an MSc, because of
> the history of slavery.

The PostgreSQL project already has this problem, note we don't use the
terms Master and Slave in reference to replication anymore.

>
> I've used the expressions "sacrifice a willing virgin" and "offering my
> first born to the gods" as ways to ensure success of resolving a
> technical issue.  The people I say that to, know what I mean -- and they
> implicitly know that I'm not seriously suggesting such conduct.  Yet, if
> I wrote that publicly, it is conceivable that someone might object!

Yes and that is a problem. We need to have some simple barrier of
acceptance that we are all adults here (or should act like adults).
Knowing your audience is important.

> Consider a past advertising campaign in Australia to sell government
> Bonds.  They used two very common hand gestures that are very
> Australian.  Bond sales dropped.  On investigation, they found the bonds
> were mainly bought by old Greek people, who found the gestures obscene.
> The gestures?  Thumbs up, and the okay gesture formed by touching the
> thumb with the next finger -- nothing sexually suggestive to most
> Australians, but traditional Greeks found them offensive.

Using Australia as an example, my understanding is that the word c**t is
part of nomenclature but in the states the word is taboo and highly
frowned upon.

> Be very careful in attempting to codify 'correct' behaviour!
>

Correct. I think one way to look at all of this is, "if you wouldn't say
it to your boss or a client don't say it here". That too has problems
but generally speaking I think it keeps the restrictions rational.

JD

--
Command Prompt, Inc. || http://the.postgres.company/ || @cmdpromptinc
*** A fault and talent of mine is to tell it exactly how it is. ***
PostgreSQL centered full stack support, consulting and development.
Advocate: @amplifypostgres || Learn: https://postgresconf.org
***** Unless otherwise stated, opinions are my own. *****