Re: DDL Damage Assessment

* Claudio Freire (klaussfreire(at)gmail(dot)com) wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Stephen Frost <sfrost(at)snowman(dot)net> wrote:
> >> That sounds extremely complex. You'd have to implement the fake
> >> columns, foreign keys, indexes, etc on most execution nodes, the
> >> planner, and even system views.
> >
> > Eh? We have MVCC catalog access.
>
> And that needs locks, especially if you modify the underlying filesystem layout.

And we wouldn't be doing that, certainly. It's a dry-run.

> >> IMO, dry-run per se, is a BEGIN; stuff; ROLLBACK. But that still needs
> >> locks. I don't think you can simulate the side effects without locks,
> >
> > Why? If you know the transaction is going to roll back and you only add
> > entries to the catalog which aren't visible to any other transactions
> > than your own, and you make sure that nothing you do actually writes
> > data out which is visible to other transactions..
>
> But that's not the scope. If you want a dry-run of table-rewriting
> DDL, or DDL interspersed with DML like:
>
> alter table blargh add foo integer;
> update blargh set foo = coalesce(bar, baz);
>
> You really cannot hope not to have to write data. The above is also
> the case with defaulted columns btw.

The point is to not write anything which is visible to other
transactions, which means we'd have to put DML into some different
'mode' which doesn't actually write where other processes might be
looking. I'm not saying it's trivial to do, but I don't think it's
impossible either. We might also be able to simply get away with
short-circuiting them and not actually writing anything (and the same
for reading data..). What would probably be useful is to review actual
migration scripts and see if this would really work. I know they'd work
for at least a subset of the migration scripts that I've dealt with
before, and also not all of them.

> >> so getting the local view of changes will be extremely difficult
> >> unless you limit the scope considerably.
> >
> > I agree that there may be complexities, but I'm not sure this is really
> > the issue..
>
> In essence, if you want MVCC catalog access without AEL, you're in for
> a rough ride. I'm not as experienced with pg's core as you, so you
> tell me, but I imagine it will be the case.

It's not clear to me what you're getting at as the 'rough' part,
exactly..

Thanks,

Stephen