Re: Thoughs after discussions at OSCON

On Tue, Aug 09, 2005 at 11:25:35AM -0700, Chris Travers wrote:
> elein wrote:
> >Lack of understanding of relational modelling is a big problem.
> >People design there databases w/application centric enforcements
> >which play well on mysql but violates Date's central rule about
> >relational databases: the integrity of the data is defined in the
> >database and cannot be circumvented by applications.
> >
> I hate to sound extremely pessimistic here but I don't really think that
> this is the problem, having had this discussion with many people who
> should know better or at least have CS degrees (which I don't have).
> This also serves to explain the success of MySQL.
>
> The problem is pervasive in both proprietary and open source apps
> because the developer sees the RDBMS merely as a simple data store for
> his/her application. The idea that the database might serve several
> apps never occurs to them. Hence it makes real sense to put as much
> logic into the application level as possible because if you put it in
> the database, then that makes more work if you have to switch RDBMS's.
>
> So MySQL works fine when people see it as basically an SQL interface for
> a set of application resources possibly residing on another system. It
> is "good enough" for this.

Or as I like to say, MySQL is fine if you just want an SQL interface to
your filesystem...

> But the problem is only masked in this situation. The RDBMS is an
> incredibly powerful tool for application integration. However, this is
> often not in the best interests of the developers who would rather lock
> you into their program. Therefore an app-specific database design makes
> economic sense.
>
> The only people that get hurt by this are the customers. So again,
> making connections to businesses so that we get a chance to explain
> ourselves is the only way we will be able to compete.

I think you're both correct; 90% of people who use databases don't
understand how important maintaining the integrity of your data is. Tom
Kyte (http://asktom.oracle.com/) harps on this all the time, and there's
some articles in that website that provide some good explanations on why
you want as much business logic, etc as possible in the database and not
in some app server.

Of course the real problem is getting this information out to people
developing database apps.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineer 512-569-9461 jnasby(at)pervasive(dot)com