Re: PostgreSQL still for Linux only?

Hi all,

In my country Nigeria (and even African continent), we do not eat what the western world eat. We wear different styles of cloths. In the same vein, our computerisation culture is different.

I must submit that computers became popular in Nigeria by Windows desktop system. While the western world were exposed to *NIX from the beginning, we were introduced to computing via DOS and later Windows. That is our IT antecedent and culture. People use database engines such as Oracle, Firebird, Sybase, mySQL, etc on Windows here and they manage them and survive. If because you want to recommend PostgreSQL, you insist on Non-Windows OS, the first question clients ask you is why is your own different? Why must I switch from Windows to *NIX because of your PostgreSQL? You might end up not succeeding in that bid. And we are used to the blue screen (crashes) and each IT house in Nigeria has gone the extra mile to ensure the safety of the operations of its clients. Everyone is a product of his environment, peculiarities and experiences.

As an IT organisation that wants to stay in business you need to give to people what they wants. I think that is the basis of service. I have some deployments of PostgreSQL on Windows servers. I must admit that we have not had any problems so far.

Notwithstanding, due efforts must be made to protect your clients' operations whether you use Windows or Posix. In that regards, I thought of reducing the risk factor by implementing replication on some of the servers.

I sought Windows replication tool for and could not get. I checked PgFoundry and the one there put a banner and said NOT FOR WINDOWS. Then I said is this PostgreSQL for Windows a joke? That prompted my post - IS POSTGRESQL FOR LINUX ONLY?

Now, as the CEO of an IT organisation, I want to draft my final blueprint on PostgreSQL. I need your advice on this.

1. If I can manage it, can I continue to use PostgreSQL on Windows and watch as it evolves? I recognise the points certain respondents made on earlier; which was PostgreSQL on Windows is still a baby boy, do not expect it to walk like a man or expect it to possess the features of a man.

2. This response is alarming:
Tom Lane wrote in digest V1.5092:
>We are supporting Windows as a Postgres platform for the benefit of developers who want to
>do testing on their laptops (and for reasons best known to themselves feel a need to run >Windows on their laptops).

a. Who are the 'we' Tom is talking about?
b. Is he speaking for PostgreSQL Developers and the entire PostgreSQL community?
c. Does this mean that PostgreSQL for Windows is just a toy or model - Oh do not take it serious? Or is the Windows version by design a miniature of the *NIX version, lacking the requisite mechanism of a reliable database?
d. And does that mean the developers can decide to withdraw development and support for the Windows version anytime they so wish?

I am not against Linux or any Posix for any reason. In fact one of my two office servers run Mandrake Linux. But I am grateful that PostgreSQL recognises the fact that we all can and will not be in the same boat. So it is good to support many boats.

Tom lane's post is worrisome to me. It bothers on consistency. Would PostgreSQL be consistent for Windows? If not, I think at this stage I can easily roll back and migrate my clients back to other Windows Database system where I feel I will be secured for some time to come as using PostgreSQL does not affect much of my operations. I am just expanding my varieties.

I think managing PostgreSQL on OS I desire should be my own duty. The point is that PostgreSQL can be available for what I choose to use it for and where I choose to use it. Managing failure points of my OS should be left to my technical expertise. Well if I can get some support from some sources, fine.

Off the topic:
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Uwe C. Schroeder wrote:
>I think it could even damage the quite good reputation of PostgreSQL - if your windows box >crashes and takes the DB with it - most likely it's not the fault of a lousy OS, nor the fault of >an incompetent sysadmin who forgot to make backups - it will be this "shitty" free database >system that's to blame.

I do not seem to be comfortable with this "Windows will spoil PostgreSQL reputation position" as posted by Schroeder. Is PostgreSQL the only database engine running on Windows? There are million of licences of Oracle, mySQL, Sybase, etc for Windows servers. The company that uses them are up and running; not as if only organisations running DB on Posix are existing. Who blames mySQL or Oracle when it crashes on Windows OS? If PostgreSQL cannot thrive where others thrive, it will be quite unfortunate. You cannot shut yourself indoors because you anticipate a rainfall (that might not come). What would be the empirical basis for our judgement if PostgreSQL is not used on Windows? Crashing MS Office on Windows is a different situation from what you would get running PostgreSQL. I do often witness many utility *NIX applications do crash on our Mandrake server, but not PostgreSQL crashing.
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I will appreciate your kind response on this before I finally take my decision on whether to continue with PostgreSQL for Windows for now.

Thank you all.

NB.

1. Magnus Handler's late submission is highly appreciated.

2.
I or someone else might have been rude by the post. Sorry to all about that. I accept responsibility for all that. But if you call someone a thief because he stole $1, what do you call yourself when you steal $2? Oh, I was disturbed reading Tony's reaction. Quite outrageous, intolerant and immature. I believe mailing list concept like this is all about education and guidance - Oh, take this way do not take this way. Share from my experience and so on.

tony <tony(at)tgds(dot)net> wrote:
>Hear hear!!! This man is a troll if ever we have seen one.
...
>Excuse me dear sir. There seems to be about 97% of the world that runs
>Windows that does not give you permission to be rude to a tiny minority
>who just happen to have written an insanely great database that runs
>quite nicely on their "hobby" OSs as well as the crap you call home. If
>you aren't pleased with the postgresql support on Windows don't use
>it!!! That is your freedom. Ours is to think (maybe wrongly) that it is
>much better running it on the BSDs and Linux of our choice. That is our
>freedom.

>There is nothing egoist about developing a great database server on an
>OS with a tiny user base. The egoists are elsewhere dear sir, far from
>the free software developers, in the closed source world. The code is
>there, it is free - go and improve it. Maybe you need a dictionary to
>look up the word egoist?

>Please go and troll over at MySQL. They have a Windows version too and
>maybe a lot more time and patience for rude people such as yourself.

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Best regards,

Tope Akinniyi
CEO
ShepherdHill Software
Lagos, Nigeria

Do not forget: Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life.

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