Hello,
Maybe must include policy of money support from several at member from
country less earnings. For examplo Cuba.
El 2018-06-05 10:45, Chris Travers escribió:
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 6:59 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd(at)commandprompt(dot)com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 06/03/2018 04:08 PM, Gavin Flower wrote:
>>
>> My comments:
>>
>> 1) Reiterate my contention that this is a solution is search of
>> problem. Still it looks like it is going forward, so see below.
>>
>> 2) "... engaging in behavior that may bring the PostgreSQL project
>> into disrepute, ..."
>> This to me is overly broad and pulls in actions that may happen
>> outside the community. Those if they are actually an issue should be
>> handled where they occur not here.
>
> This is good point. There are those who would think that one has
> performed an action that brings the project into disrepute and a
> similar sized bias that suggests that in fact that isn't the case.
> This based on the CoC would be judged by the CoC committee.
>
> It is my hope that PostgreSQL.Org -Core chooses members for that
> committee that are exceedingly diverse otherwise it is just an echo
> chamber for a single ideology and that will destroy this community.
>
> If I may suggest: The committee should be international as well and
> include people from around the world. The last thing we want is for
> it to be dominated by people from one particular cultural viewpoint.
>
>> 3) "... members must be sensitive to conduct that may be considered
>> offensive by fellow members and must refrain from engaging in such
>> conduct. "
>
>>> Again overly broad, especially given the hypersensitivity of
>>> people these days. I have found that it is enough to disagree with
>>> someone to have it called offensive. This section should be
>>> removed as proscribed behavior is called out in detail in the
>>> paragraphs above it.
>
> "considered offensive by fellow members"
>
> Is definitely too broad. The problem comes in here:
>
>> I might possibly say that "I'm the master in this area" when talking
>> to someone on a technical subject. In the sense that I'm better at
>> that particular skill, but some hypersensitive American could get
>> their knickers in a twist (notice, that in this context, no gender
>> is implied -- also in using that that expression "get their knickers
>> in a twist" could offend some snowflake) claiming that I'm
>> suggesting that whoever
>
> "snowflake", I find that term hilarious others find it highly
> offensive. Which is correct?
>
> I agree with both concerns in the above exchange.
>
> This is an economic common project. The goal should be for people to
> come together and act civilly. Waging culture war using the code of
> conduct itself should be a violation of the code of conduct and this
> goes on *all* (not just one or two) sides.
>
>>> I'm talking to is my slave! I heard of an American university
>>> that doesn't want people to use the term master, like in an MSc,
>>> because of the history of slavery.
>>
>> The PostgreSQL project already has this problem, note we don't use
>> the terms Master and Slave in reference to replication anymore.
>>
>>> I've used the expressions "sacrifice a willing virgin" and
>>> "offering my first born to the gods" as ways to ensure success of
>>> resolving a technical issue. The people I say that to, know what
>>> I mean -- and they implicitly know that I'm not seriously
>>> suggesting such conduct. Yet, if I wrote that publicly, it is
>>> conceivable that someone might object!
>>
>> Yes and that is a problem. We need to have some simple barrier of
>> acceptance that we are all adults here (or should act like adults).
>> Knowing your audience is important.
>
> I would point out also that the PostgreSQL community is nice and
> mature. At PGConf US I saw what appeared to be two individuals with
> red MAGA hats. And yet everyone managed to be civil. We manage to do
> better than the US does on the whole in this regard and we should be
> proud of ourselves.
>
>>> Consider a past advertising campaign in Australia to sell
>>> government Bonds. They used two very common hand gestures that
>>> are very Australian. Bond sales dropped. On investigation, they
>>> found the bonds were mainly bought by old Greek people, who found
>>> the gestures obscene. The gestures? Thumbs up, and the okay
>>> gesture formed by touching the thumb with the next finger --
>>> nothing sexually suggestive to most Australians, but traditional
>>> Greeks found them offensive.
>>
>> Using Australia as an example, my understanding is that the word
>> c**t is part of nomenclature but in the states the word is taboo and
>> highly frowned upon.
>
> Again key point that a CoC committee needs to be international and
> used to addressing these sorts of issues.
>
>>> Be very careful in attempting to codify 'correct' behaviour!
>>
>> Correct. I think one way to look at all of this is, "if you
>> wouldn't say it to your boss or a client don't say it here". That
>> too has problems but generally speaking I think it keeps the
>> restrictions rational.
>
> I will post a more specific set of thoughts here but in general I
> think the presumption ought to be that people are trying to work
> together. Misunderstanding can happen. But let's try to act in a
> collegial and generally respectful way around eachother.
>
> --
>
> Best Regards,
> Chris Travers
> Database Administrator
>
> Tel: +49 162 9037 210 | Skype: einhverfr | www.adjust.com [1]
> Saarbrücker Straße 37a, 10405 Berlin
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>
>
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